Cloning

.......last cloned 24th February 2003

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Ethical and Religious Views on Cloning:
Christian & Islamic Views on Cloning:
Bhagavad Gita
The Hindu perspective of Cloning from Hinduism Today magazine:

A Lighthearted Look At Cloning:
The Rolling Clones:

Man is well known for creating monsters through imitating and mutating God's creations. What I mean to say is that there are often unseen factors that seem to escalate out of hand, or worse still maybe, in finding themselves in the hands of greedy industrialists with the aide of disloyal scientists, polluting the planet, exploiting resources, and selfishly and unwittingly introducing projects, which initially may have been aimed at helping mankind, in health, or in putting people back together such as after wars or engineering mishaps that have directly been the cause of either individual, local, national, or international, possibly global or even universal environmental problems, due to nuclear and industrial waste disposal, genetic engineering, atmospheric pollution, manipulative claims and false educational propaganda just to advance their own pet causes. As if this wasn't a long enough sentance to write, the sentance they give to the people involves playing with their lives, deceiving them/us, making recessions, depressions and wars to achive their goals.

So why should we trust such persons?

There's an olde saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
    Frankly like any of us with a material body, this world is self healing. We don't need to play God. And we really don't need the impersonalistic mutant results of such experiments to clutter up the world or to turn on the people - did you see that movie too? Fact is, as much as can be thought of can be done. But how much is necessary and how much of our time would be better spent, that is a question best answered by shastra.

Svarüpa Dämodara: The question that I wrote to Çréla Prabhupäda, the answer that Çréla Prabhupäda gave me was that the cells in the body and the jévätmä that resides in the heart, they are different living entities. But my understanding was directed to the relationship between the two, the jévätmä in the cells and the jévätmä in the heart, how they are related, how they...
Prabhupäda: They are separate identity.
Svarüpa Dämodara: But it looks like, though, in the material body the one cannot exist without another. They look like interdependent.
Prabhupäda: That may be, but still, they are individuals.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: When the jéva in the heart dies, then all the other cells in the body also have to die.
Prabhupäda: No.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: No, they don’t. But when the body decays, doesn’t everything...
Prabhupäda: No. Dead body so many germs come out.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: Oh.
Prabhupäda: How it comes?
Svarüpa Dämodara: But that is different, though. When a body dies, then there are many germs from outside that...
Prabhupäda: Living entities within the body, they come out, hundreds and thousands. They have not died. Suppose in this jungle there are so many living entities. If I die, what has got to do with them?
Svarüpa Dämodara: But science tries to understand what is life and in order to do that they just want to understand what is cell. Because science tries to understand what is life, and in order to do that they just want to study what is the cell because cells are the smallest living units of life. That is their understanding. So once they understand what a cell is, then they know what life is. That is their aim. So if the cells and the jévätmä within the heart, they are different and they are independent, then they cannot conceive of just having a jévätmä in the heart.
Prabhupäda: That... The particular jévätmä who has been given this body, he is living in the heart.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: But according to the scientists, our body is made up of little cells just like a brick wall is made up of so many individual bricks. Each... Like in one piece of skin there is...
Prabhupäda: That’s all right. That is body. Just like I live in a house. The house is made of so many bricks. But I am not brick.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: But they say that...
Prabhupäda: “They say!” They are foolish, we always say. Because I am living in a house consisting of so many bricks, it does not mean that I am brick.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: But is each cell an individual living entity?
Prabhupäda: That I do not know. What do you mean by cell? But there are many living entities within this body. That we know.
Svarüpa Dämodara: That is different from the concept of cell. there are many living entities like germs...
Prabhupäda: So concept of cell is the cell is just like bricks. Matter and spirit, two things are there. Either it must be matter or must be spirit.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: But it’s seen that the scientists, they can take some skin from your body and by putting in different solutions can keep that skin itself alive for such a long time. They have taken the heart of a chicken out of the chicken’s body and then kept it beating for so many hours even though that heart was away from the main chicken. Or they take some other tissue and keep it alive. So they say that each cell is an individual living being.
Prabhupäda: So we have no objection.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: That is all right. So there is a spirit soul in every...
Prabhupäda: No, no. All right or not all right I don’t say. But if they say like that, we have no objection
Svarüpa Dämodara: So the understanding to find out what life is is just to study what a cell is. That is their... They say that cells are composed of these molecules.
Prabhupäda: What is the position of the cells when the man dies?
Svaupa Dämodara: The cells are dead. The cells that compose the body, they are dead. There are may be new living entities coming from different parts, but the cell that composed the human body is dead. They cannot reproduce anymore.
Prabhupäda: So what is your proposal? That cell is life?
Svarüpa Dämodara: Yes.
Prabhupäda: So can you develop life from the cells? As you said that you take the skin and you keep, so take the cells and develop into life.
Svarüpa Dämodara: That’s called culturing of the cells. They can culture it.
Prabhupäda: That’s all right. Whether you have done it.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: Well, they have that process called cloning?
Svarüpa Dämodara: No, no, this is the culture. That means take a cell from a living tissue, and you culture it and you supply the sufficient nutrients. Then theoretically they will grow forever. They will divide. They will...
Prabhupäda: So they will grow to a human being?
Svarüpa Dämodara: Not a human being, but the cells just divide.
Prabhupäda: Then an ant, an ant?
Svarüpa Dämodara: No.
Prabhupäda: Then what is this? (laughter)
Svarüpa Dämodara: (laughing) But the cell is still alive.
Prabhupäda: But you said that as soon as the man dies, they also die.
Svarüpa Dämodara: That is what my question arose, how these, the relationship between the jévätmä in cells and the jévätmä in the heart.
Prabhupäda: The jévätmä... If the cells are living entities, then why do they not remain? Just like other living entities, they remain in the body and they come out. Even the man who has died, he is not there, but the other living entities are there.
Svarüpa Dämodara: So it seems that the cells are not independent. They are somehow controlled by the jévätmä or the... Of course, Paramätmä is controlling everything. But I know sometimes the cells that compose the body of a living body, it seems that they are not independent; they are dependent.
Prabhupäda: That may be. But what about your cultivating living entities from the cells?
Svarüpa Dämodara: Yes, that can be done. That they have already done.
Prabhupäda: “That can be done,” you say everything. But you never done.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: They call it... You know that? They call it cloning?
Svarüpa Dämodara: Cloning is a different process, though. Cloning is just they take the life from the genes from different species and put this together and form a new species called hybrids of some living entity.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: The scientists say that the cells reproduce not by mating but by splitting in half...
Prabhupäda: That is possible.
Svarüpa Dämodara: But once Çréla Prabhupäda told us, though, that I am in the heart and...
Prabhupäda: I am an individual.
Svarüpa Dämodara: Yes.
Prabhupäda: So that is my position. I live in the heart, and I go away. Other living entities may remain there.
Gurudäsa: When a heart is transplanted does the soul stay in the heart?
Prabhupäda: Yes.
Svarüpa Dämodara: I want to clarify another that Prabhupäda told us that compared with the cells, I am a little bigger god, but the cells are smaller. Just like we are serving spiritual master. Similarly, the cells are serving. They have no choice in the...
Prabhupäda: Yes. That is good idea. Yes.
Svarüpa Dämodara: So similarly, we were discussing with the Balavanta Prabhu one day about the... He was giving a nice example that in a kingdom where the king stays... Just like Çréla Prabhupäda’s example: living in an apartment. Çréla Prabhupäda and disciples and many other living entities stay in the same apartment, but a person, an individual, who knows his position, is to serve the order of the head of the apartment. But somebody doesn’t follow. He just goes away from the apartment. So Balavanta was asking what is the use of that? So similarly, when the cells... We can take out from one part of the body and can culture it, but what is the use? It produces, but actually it’s not really behaving as it should. It has no value.
Prabhupäda: Yes. They are just like machine parts. Parts and parcels, they are helping the whole machine work.
Svarüpa Dämodara: About Guru däsa prabhu’s point, when the heart transplant, the soul stays in the subtle body. Is that sound?
Prabhupäda: Yes. Soul is always staying in the subtle body, and the subtle body is left when he goes to God or kingdom of God.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: One thing I’m trying to understand is how is it that the soul wants different things and then the material body acts according to the desires of the soul? So there is a cause and thereis an effect. Normally all our cause and effect, we see one material thing causing another material thing to happen. But how is it the spirit causes? What is the connection that spirit causes matter to do so many things? The spirit is manipulating the matter, but how? How is that contact there?
Prabhupäda: Contact? It is already in contact. You are in the material body. It is already in contact.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: But I don’t understand how that contact is working.
Prabhupäda: Contact is working under the direction of God. The individual soul desires, and God arranges to fulfill his desire with the help of prakåti.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: So when I want to move my hand, when I want to move this hand and so I will to move my hand, actually there has to be God involved in that action. Otherwise the hand won’t move.
Prabhupäda: Paralyzed.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: Paralyzed.
Prabhupäda: When your hand is paralyzed what you can do?
Ravéndra-svarüpa: Do actually I don’t directly do anything with matter. It is all Kåñëa’s doing everything with the matter.
Devotee: “Man proposes, God disposes.”
Prabhupäda: Yes.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: Also I heard that also in every act of..., like if I want to blink my eyelid, also there is a demigod. What is the necessity of so many demigods? Why can’t Kåñëa directly...
Prabhupäda: That how you can know? You are not the director. Director knows how many assistants he requires. You cannot know... You are under the direction. You are not director. [break] ...not a mechanic he cannot understand why there are so many parts in the motor car. He is a fool. He doesn’t know. But a mechanic knows that these things are required.
Guru däsa: If the soul cannot be burnt, why does the desire to be burnt in the material world there? Burnt, drowned...
Svarüpa-damodara: Destroyed.
Prabhupäda: He is not destroyed. When this body cannot work any more... Because this body is a machine. So a machine, if he does not move, then you, have to change to another machine.
Svarüpa Dämodara: The desire is not... Actually it is not burned; it just changed. The desire is changed to for a higher purpose. We have a choice between the subtle desires. Just change is the there from one to another.
Prabhupäda: No, the same example: just like in a motor car you desire to go this side, but the machine is stopped, so you have to accept another motor car. It is like that, to fulfill your desire. After all it is a machine. Machine is matter. So it has got a time to work. When it is not working, then you change to another machine to fulfill your desire.
Guru däsa: If God, Kåñëa, desires the motor car to turn right, what makes the car turn left?
Prabhupäda: Not Kåñëa desires. You desire. Kåñëa helps you. Kåñëa desires you give up all this nonsense and surrender to Him. Only He desires that. But if you don’t do, you will desire so many things.
Svarüpa Dämodara: It remains a mystery to great thinkers that though the soul is pure by nature and transcendental, but somehow it is trapped in the subtle and gross body and...
Prabhupäda: Because he desired. Kåñëa bhuliya jéva bhoga vaïchä kare. When he wants to enjoy this material world... In the spiritual world there is only one enjoyer. And in the material world everyone is a enjoyer. He is planning in his own way how to enjoy. That is material world. In the spiritual world the enj..., is Kåñëa, and all others is helping in His enjoyment. But in material world everyone is thinking, “I am enjoyer,” and he is planning in his own way.
Devotee (1): Çréla Prabhupäda, modern philosophy is teaching that the forces of greed and lust and these things are greater than man, that actually... This concept that we are eternal, full of knowledge and bliss, they cannot accept that or understand that. They’re thinking that the powers of evil are much greater, and we’re just controlled by these things.
Prabhupäda: Therefore they are fools. When a man’s lusty desire is very strong, he commits, what is called, rape, and he becomes complicated in criminal activities. Käma eña krodha eña rajo-guëa-samudbhavaù. Why one is forced to do that? The cause is lusty desires, anger, greediness. So we are thinking we are master of this material world, but actually you are servant of these desires, käma, krodha, lobha, mohaù. And that is mäyä. He is acting as servant, but he’s thinking, “I am master.” That is mäyä, which is not the fact. Just like yesterday we were discussing that the women, they are acting as instrument of men, and they are thinking, “We have equal rights.” A man is utilizing her for his own purpose, and she is thinking “I am equal.”
Ravéndra-svarüpa: I think you really surprised them when you told them that this women’s liberation is just a trick by the men just to increase the class of prostitutes, available prostitutes.
Prabhupäda: Free prostitutes. You go to a prostitute; you have to pay. Here they have arranged in such a way that free prostitute loitering on the street, and you can enjoy any one. This is their plan. They are rendered into beggar, and they are thinking equal rights.
Devotee (2): Çréla Prabhupäda, what does it mean that the soul is immovable?
Prabhupäda: Immovable? Where it is?
Devotee (2): It states this in Bhagavad-gétä.
Prabhupäda: What is this? What is the verse?
Devotee (2): I don’t know exactly. It’s in the Second Chapter. Kåñëa’s describing the nature of the spirit soul to Arjuna. Does anyone know that verse?
Nitäi: Sthanur acalo ’yam...?
Prabhupäda: Immovable in this sense: when he is fixed up in a certain body, then he is immovable from that body. Acalo ’yam sthanuù, sthanuù. Just like we’re speaking of transplanting the heart. That does not mean you move the soul. That is immovable.
Devotee (3): Çréla Prabhupäda, the pure devotee’s spirit soul is not trapped by the gross and subtle bodies?
Prabhupäda: Yes, when he is liberated by devotional service. Sa guëän samatétyaitän brahma-bhüyäya kalpate [Bg. 14.26].
Devotee (4): Prabhupäda, when we try to explain to people that our philosophy of Kåñëa consciousness is authoritative and is coming from undisturbed men, learned men, that our spiritual master is not an ordinary man, what does it mean that he is not an ordinary man?
Prabhupäda: He is not moved by the rascal scientist. (laughter) All rascals are moved by the so-called scientists.
Svarüpa Dämodara: Çréla Prabhupäda... (laughter)
Prabhupäda: (laughing) The scientist is angry.
Svarüpa Dämodara: The soul is trapped as well as untrapped in the material body...
Prabhupäda: Because he wanted to be trapped.
Svarüpa Dämodara: But sometimes it is also untrapped. But sometimes he is also free.
Prabhupäda: No, by nature, he is not mixed up with these material things, but he is entrapped by his free will. Just like we are staying here. We are not bound to stay here, but we have come here. Nobody has forced us to come here.
Svarüpa Dämodara: So is that philosophy, simultaneously one and different...
Prabhupäda: Yes.
Svarüpa Dämodara: ...that acintya-bhedäbheda is also applicable in the case of...
Prabhupäda: No, soul never mixes with the matter. Now I have come here, I am not mixed up with this jungle.
Svarüpa Dämodara: But it looks like it...
Prabhupäda: It looks like. That is another thing. Asaìgo ’yaà puruñaù. The Vedic injunction is” “The puruña, the soul, is never complicated or mixed up with this.” Because just like oil and water, it never mixes. The oil keeps its separate identity in water.
Svarüpa Dämodara: Yes. But if you put in a body, though they cannot be mixed, but they can stay together. Like in a chemical laboratory we take a test tube. In the test tube I can mix two solutions like, for example, mercury and water and oil. They will not mix, but they will stay in the same test tube. But a man who knows about the art of separating those three mixtures can do it very nicely.
Prabhupäda: Yes. Similarly, soul does not mix with the matter and by this art, transcendental knowledge, you can become out of it.
Svarüpa Dämodara: So that’s why we need a process and someone who knows the process of.
Prabhupäda: The process is bhakti-yoga. Sa guëän samatétyaitän: [Bg. 14.26] “Anyone who has taken to this bhakti-yoga,” mäà ca vyabhicariëi bhakti-yogena yaù sevate, “he immediately becomes free from the mixture of these three guëas.” Sa guëän samatétyaitän brahma-bhüyäya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. “He again revives his Brahman nature.” Ahaà brahmäsmi. Brahma-bhütäù prasannätmä: [Bg. 18.54] Then he understands that ‘I have no connection with these all nonsense things. I am brahma-bhütäù.’ ”
 Devotee (4): Prabhupäda, we’re in this material world, in this human body, we’re having to work with this intelligence, with mind, material things. So there is a group of philosophers that say that actually because we’re a product, our mind, the way we’re thinking now is a product of our upbringing and our past, that actually we have no free will, but we’re forced to think and act in a certain way.
Prabhupäda: Why you are forced?
Devotee (4): Because of conditioning.
Prabhupäda: Then that you have to admit that you are conditioned by some authority. When you are put into jail, you cannot act independently. You have to act according to the jail superintendent’s order.
Devotee (3): Prabhupäda, is our desire to be eternal, blissful and full of knowledge...
Prabhupäda: Now let me finish. You will never be able to understand if you jump over like that. Let one thing be understood.
Devotee (4): So he admits he’s conditioned, but still, there’s no free will. He says, “Yeah, so I’m in the prison. I’m imprisoned. I’m conditioned.”
Prabhupäda: No, no, no. Free will... Just like a man commits theft by his free will. But when he is put into jail, then no more free will. He has to act according to the jail superintendent. But his beginning of jail life is free will. Nobody asked him that “You go to jail.” But why he has come? He knows also that “When I am put into jail, I will lose all my freedom.” He knows that. Still, he comes. Why does he come? He knows that. That is called ajïäna. Müòha. That is called müòha. He knows; still, he does.
Svarüpa Dämodara: He is taking a chance.
Prabhupäda: Yes, that means he is becoming implicated.
Svarüpa Dämodara: He thinks that maybe he will be free, that..., if sometimes there’s also a chance that he will be caught.
Prabhupäda: That is ajïäna. As soon as he, “may be,” that means ajïäna.
Devotee (4): So that’s why we originally fell down?
Prabhupäda: Knowledge must be solid. There is no question “of maybe,” no. Just like if you touch fire, there is no question of “maybe.” It must burn you. You may think, “It may not burn,” but that is your foolishness.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: So they think that they can enjoy material nature but not be implicated.
Prabhupäda: Yes. Not implicated. He is already implicated. There is no question of maybe. Must.
Devotee (5):. So when we fell down from the spiritual world...
Prabhupäda: Then you must suffer. There is no question, “maybe.”
Devotee (5): When we fell down we were thinking, we could enjoy like that, in the same way?
Prabhupäda: Yes, that is foolishness. And we are making our plan how to enjoy. That is our foolishness. And Kåñëa says “You give up all these nonsense plans. Come to Me.”
Devotee (5): Is this example proper, that a son is being well taken care of by the father, but sometimes he’s thinking, “I can enjoy more some other way?”
Prabhupäda: Yes. Yes.
Svarüpa Dämodara: Çréla Prabhupäda, can I change the topic? Last, day before yesterday, morning, Prabhupäda said that plants are more highly developed than the fish or the aquatics. But someone may ask what about the dolphins and the seals. They are regarded as very intelligent and highly developed.
Prabhupäda: Every living entity has a particular type of intelligence which is greater than the other.
Svarüpa Dämodara: No, in the evolutionary cycle. Talking about the...
Prabhupäda: No, evolutionary, cycle, the body may change, but every living entity has got a special advantage upon the others.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: What is the advantage of a tree, Çréla Prabhupäda?
Prabhupäda: You see how they are standing there for five thousand years. You cannot do it. You cannot do it even for five minutes.
Svarüpa Dämodara: Actually the trees are absolutely necessary for the survival of animals.
Prabhupäda: That is another thing. We say nothing is necessary, simply Kåñëa is necessary. That is material conception: “This is necessary. This is necessary.” But Kåñëa says, “Nothing is necessary.” Sarva-dharmän parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. You are simply planning and becoming entangled with so-called “necessary.”
Svarüpa Dämodara: But that is on the spiritual platform.
Prabhupäda: You can create spiritual platform immediately. Sa guëän samatétyaitän [Bg. 14.26]. If you fully engage yourself in devotional service, immediately you are above this material conception.
Svarüpa Dämodara: So the concept that the three modes of material nature, they’re working all species, so it’s not the...
Prabhupäda: They are directing. Just like in the jail there are different departmental management, similarly, this management is required because you are in the jail. If you don’t go to jail, the management may be closed. But you are thinking, “If I do not go to jail, how it will exist?” That is your business, say that “If we all become liberated, how this world will go on?” They say like that, as if it is very necessary.
Devotee (3): Çréla Prabhupäda, is the subtle bodies in the subtle world, are they made up of subtle atoms?
Prabhupäda: Subtle body means subtle atoms. So if we are in subtle body, so whatever there is in the subtle body, everything is there.
Devotee (6): Prabhupäda, sometimes on saìkértana we say that the human form of life is the highest because in this form we can understand God, and they say, “Well, what about the dolphins? You know, they’ve been doing experiments with the dolphins, and they’ve been finding out that the dolphins have their own conversations and things like that.”
Prabhupäda: So what they have done with the dolphins? They are talking only. What they have done? Simply theorizing. [break]
Prabhupäda: (in car) ...improved anything.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: No.
Prabhupäda: They are going on ciraà vicinvan. Forever they are simply thinking, and no improvement has done.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: Of course, they promise that they will be able to do so many...
Prabhupäda: That everyone can, a child can also promise. That is another thing.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: [break] ...the cells because they say that the cells are the fundamental unit of life and if they can understand even a very simple cell, then they think perhaps they can find the principles to understand everything living.
Prabhupäda: Well, this “perhaps...”
Ravéndra-svarüpa: But they can’t understand the cell.
Prabhupäda: Yes. So their “perhaps,” “maybe,” is going on. And that will continue.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: Why does the living entity wish to speculate in this way?
Prabhupäda: He has been given a special advantage to think of God, but instead of thinking God, he is thinking all these rubbish things, which he will never be able to fulfill. Misusing. The thinking power he is misusing.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: So this mental speculation or this “perhaps” and “maybe” is a misuse of his specific power to understand God.
Prabhupäda: Yes, yes. Athäto brahma jijïäsä. The life, human life, is meant for enquiring about God, and God is explaining Himself about God. Instead of studying Bhagavad-gétä very scrutinizingly, they are wasting time. “The cells, this, that, atom.” That’s all, wasting time Just like we are driving this car. So we can utilize it for going from one place to another. So there is no need of studying how the car is moving, how many parts are there.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: But still, people seem to have always a curiosity about these things.
Prabhupäda: Yes. That curiosity is explained in the Bhagavad-gétä that it is a machine and there are many subtle parts of the machine. So you have been given this machine. You utilize it properly. Why you are busy in studying the different parts? The different parts are there undoubtedly. But you cannot actually understand.
Ravéndra-svarüpa: We’re going to take a picture, Çréla Prabhupäda.
Prabhupäda: All right. (end)

(ACBSP. Morning Walk, July 14, 1975, Philadelphia.)

So in conclusion what we are engineering through the cloning process is a living being who would ordinarily by generative natural selection of proproirtership be of an inferior nature in the "pecking order" of domination over the person who pervades the body when cloning takes place. Under normal insemination that is attracted by the conglomerate consciousness of the mother and father of the issue, and the subsequent nurturing and growth, and bonding that takes place to enable the "human psyche" to delevop properly, enabling security, love, appreciation, gratitude etc to develop, some of the finer sentiments of human culture. Without which insensitive, impersonal, artificially conceived, laboritory harvested and grown, and then trained....... certainly leaves something of a vacuum, a vast lacking in what it takes to be a REAL and cultured member of the human race.

See my link here to reveal the technicalities of the nature of the Jivatma (soul). This page looks at the soul who inhabits a body, any body, every body, and reveals simply the cheating nature of the material scientists. You may remember in the days when they said they would create life in the test tube..... but then actually what they did was to replicate the conditions of the womb in a test tube and then follow the same process of insemination but in a lab' in a test tube - simply trying to re-invent the wheel, and got paid millions of tax payer dollars for doing it.

Scientists Unveil Human Cloning Effort

Source: Reuters

CHICAGO, ILLINOIS, January 27, 2001: An international group of reproductive experts plans to start a serious effort to clone humans to provide children to infertile couples, a U.S. scientist said. A viable embryo, probably using stem cells or other cells taken from the man, could be available for implantation in the woman's uterus within 18 months, said Dr. Panayiotis Zavos of the Andrology Institute of America and the Kentucky Center for Reproductive Medicine and Invitro Fertilization in Lexington, Kentucky. Zavos noted, "This is going to be the first serious effort. As revolutionary as it may sound, as fictional as it may sound, it will be done. It's a genie that is out of the bottle and will be controlled." To create animal clones, scientists frequently made hundreds of failed attempts to develop viable embryos. Medical ethicists have posed the possibility of cruel failures in human cloning, where genetic abnormalities result in grotesque fetuses unable to survive outside the womb.

Used with thanks -  http://www.HinduismToday.com/

Cloning, Not So Safe?
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/25/science/25CLON.html?pagewanted=all

HAWAII, OAHU, March 25, 2001: Scientists are having second thoughts about cloning. Since 1997 when the first mammal, Dolly the sheep, was produced by scientists in Scotland, cloning techniques have been perfected by researchers. However even with the utmost diligence only 2 or 3 percent of attempts to clone are successful. Those that do survive often suffer from developmental delays, heart defects, lung problems or severe weight gain. Dolly herself had to be separated from other sheep in order to control her diet as she kept gaining weight. Under normal circumstances an animal egg and sperm take several years to mature. With cloning the egg is expected to replicate an adult's genetic material in minutes or hours, apparently leading to errors in the DNA code.

Used with thanks -  http://www.HinduismToday.com/

U.K. Bans Human Cloning
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1285000/1285151.stm

BRITAIN, UK, April 19, 2001: Britain announced on Thursday that the government is bringing forward legislation to outlaw human cloning within months. Currently, cloning work is restricted to scientists granted licenses. Health Secretary Alan Milburn said that the only way to ensure human cloning never takes place is to ban reproductive human cloning by law. While agreeing that Britain should aim to become a world leader in the genetic revolution in healthcare, the health secretary stressed that strict boundaries must be set to reassure the public that genetic technology be harnessed for beneficial use only.

Used with thanks -  http://www.HinduismToday.com/

                            sarva-yonisu kaunteya
                          murtayah sambhavanti yah
                          tasam brahma mahad yonir
                            aham bija-pradah pita

WORD FOR WORD
sarva-yonisu--in all species of life; kaunteya--O son of Kunti; murtayah--forms; sambhavanti--they appear; yah--which; tasam--of all of them; brahma--the supreme; mahat yonih--source of birth in the material substance; aham--I; bija-pradah--the seed-giving; pita--father.

TRANSLATION
It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunti, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.

PURPORT by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
In this verse it is clearly explained that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, is the original father of all living entities. The living entities are combinations of the material nature and the spiritual nature. Such living entities are seen not only on this planet but on every planet, even on the highest, where Brahma is situated. Everywhere there are living entities; within the earth there are living entities, even within water and within fire. All these appearances are due to the mother, material nature, and Krsna's seed-giving process. The purport is that the material world is impregnated with living entities, who come out in various forms at the time of creation according to their past deeds.

Copyright 1983 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.

 BHAGAVAD-GITA 16:9

                           etam drstim avastabhya
                          nastatmano 'lpa-buddhayah
                          prabhavanty ugra-karmanah
                            ksayaya jagato 'hitah

WORD FOR WORD
etam--this; drstim--vision; avastabhya--accepting; nasta--having lost; atmanah--themselves; alpa-buddhayah--the less intelligent; prabhavanti--flourish; ugra-karmanah--engaged in painful activities; ksayaya--for destruction; jagatah--of the world; ahitah--unbeneficial.

TRANSLATION
Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world.

PURPORT by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
The demoniac are engaged in activities that will lead the world to destruction. The Lord states here that they are less intelligent. The materialists, who have no concept of God, think that they are advancing. But according to Bhagavad-gita, they are unintelligent and devoid of all sense. They try to enjoy this material world to the utmost limit and therefore always engage in inventing something for sense gratification. Such materialistic inventions are considered to be advancement of human civilization, but the result is that people grow more and more violent and more and more cruel, cruel to animals and cruel to other human beings. They have no idea how to behave toward one another. Animal killing is very prominent amongst demoniac people. Such people are considered the enemies of the world because ultimately they will invent or create something which will bring destruction to all. Indirectly, this verse anticipates the invention of nuclear weapons, of which the whole world is today very proud. At any moment war may take place, and these atomic weapons may create havoc. Such things are created solely for the destruction of the  world, and this is indicated here. Due to godlessness, such weapons  are invented in human society; they are not meant for the peace and  prosperity of the world.

Copyright 1983 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.

BHAGAVAD-GITA 16:10

                           kamam asritya duspuram
                           dambha-mana-madanvitah
                           mohad grhitvasad-grahan
                          pravartante 'suci-vratah

WORD FOR WORD
kamam--lust; asritya--taking shelter of; duspuram--insatiable; dambha--of pride; mana--and false prestige; mada-anvitah--absorbed in the conceit; mohat--by illusion; grhitva--taking; asat--nonpermanent; grahan--things; pravartante--they flourish; asuci--to the unclean;  vratah--avowed.

TRANSLATION
Taking shelter of insatiable lust and absorbed in the conceit of pride and false prestige, the demoniac, thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent.

PURPORT by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
The demoniac mentality is described here. The demons have no satiation for their lust. They will go on increasing and increasing their insatiable desires for material enjoyment. Although they are always full of anxieties on account of accepting nonpermanent things, they still continue to engage in such activities out of illusion. They have no knowledge and cannot tell that they are heading the wrong way. Accepting nonpermanent things, such demoniac people create their own God, create their own hymns and chant accordingly. The result is that they become more and more attracted to two things--sex enjoyment and accumulation of material wealth. The word asuci-vratah, "unclean vows," is very significant in this connection. Such demoniac people are only attracted by wine, women, gambling and meat-eating; those are their asuci, unclean habits. Induced by pride and false prestige, they create some principles of religion which are not approved by the Vedic injunctions. Although such demoniac people are most abominable in the world, by artificial means the world creates a false honor for them. Although they are gliding toward hell, they consider themselves very much advanced.

Copyright 1983 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.

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Researchers Find Big Risk of Defect in Cloning Animals

              By GINA KOLATA

                  Four years after researchers in Scotland startled the world by announcing that they had cloned a sheep named Dolly, scientists say evidence is mounting that creating healthy animals through cloning is more difficult than they had expected.

              The clones that have been produced, they say, often have problems severe enough — developmental delays, heart defects, lung problems and malfunctioning immune systems — to give pause to anyone thinking of cloning a human being. In one example that seems like science fiction come true, some cloned mice that appeared normal suddenly, as young adults, grew grotesquely fat.

              It is not that one particular thing goes wrong or one specific aspect of development goes awry, researchers say. Rather, leading cloning experts and developmental biologists said in recent interviews, the cloning process seems to create random errors in the expression of individual genes. Those errors can produce any number of unpredictable problems, at any time in life.

              Before Dolly's debut in 1997, scientists thought mammals could not be cloned. But now they have cloned not only sheep but also mice, cows, pigs and goats. With mice, they have even made clones of clones on down for six generations. Dolly is apparently normal. Two infertility specialists recently announced that they wanted to clone humans.

              Initial fears — that clones would age rapidly or develop cancer — turned out to be unfounded, scientists said. But as scientists gained more experience, and tried to discern why efforts so often ended in failure, new questions about the safety of  cloning arose. Fewer than 3 percent of all cloning efforts succeed.

              In cloning, scientists slip a cell from an adult into an egg with its genetic material removed. The egg then reprograms the adult cell's genes so that they are ready to direct the development of an embryo, then a fetus, then a newborn that is genetically identical to the adult whose cell was used to start the process. No one knows how the egg reprograms an adult cell's genes, but that, scientists think, is the source of the cloning calamities that can occur. The problem, they say, seems to be that an egg must do a task in minutes or hours that normally takes months or years. In the months it takes sperm to mature, their genes are being reprogrammed. The same thing happens in eggs, where over years they slowly mature in the ovaries. And this reprogramming must be perfect, scientists say, or individual genes can go amiss at any time in development or later life.

              "With cloning, you are asking an egg to reprogram in minutes or, at most, in hours,"
              said Dr. Rudolph Jaenisch, a professor of biology at the Whitehead Institute at the
              Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "That's where the major problem is."

              All the evidence so far, scientists say, indicates that the breathtakingly rapid reprogramming in cloning can introduce random errors into the clone's DNA, subtly altering individual genes with consequences that can halt embryo or fetal development, killing the clone. Or the gene alterations may be fatal soon after birth or lead to major medical problems later in life.

              Some scientists say they shudder to think what might happen if human beings are cloned with today's techniques. While arguments over the ethics of human cloning have dominated the debate, these scientists say the real issue is the likelihood that clones would have genetic abnormalities that could be fatal or subtle but devastating. Until that problem is solved, they say, human cloning should be out of the question.

 

Researchers Find Big Risk of Defect in Cloning Animals

              (Page 2 of 2)

              "It would be morally indefensible," said Dr. Brigid Hogan, a professor of cell biology at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville and an investigator with the Howard Hughes Medical Institute.

              Dr. Jaenisch said, "It would be reckless and irresponsible," adding, "What do you do with humans who are born with half a kidney or no immune system?" And, he said, what about the possibility of creating children who appear to be normal but whose genes for neurological development work improperly?

              Scientists say they see what appear to be genetic problems almost every time they try to clone.

              For example, some mouse clones grow fat, sometimes enormously obese, even though they are given exactly the same amount of food as otherwise identical mice that are not the products of cloning. The fat mice seem fine until an age that would be the equivalent of 30 for a person, when their weight starts to soar, said Dr Ryuzo Yanagimachi, a University of Hawaii researcher who first cloned these animals and has studied cloning's consequences in them.

              Cloned mice also tend to have developmental abnormalities, taking longer to reach milestones like eye opening and ear twitching, Dr. Yanagimachi has found.

              Cow clones are often born with enlarged hearts or lungs that do not develop properly, said Dr. Mark E. Westhusin, a cloning expert at Texas A & M University in College Station, Tex. Dolly herself, while apparently healthy, grew fat and had to  be separated from the other sheep and put on a diet. But her experience is difficult to interpret since it is hard to draw conclusions about a propensity to obesity from one animal.

              The genetic effects most often seem to be fatal at the very start of life, researchers say. With cattle, for example, 100 attempts to create a clone typically result in a single live calf, Dr. Westhusin said.

              Cloning mice is more efficient, Dr. Yanagimachi said. But even then, only 2 percent  to 3 percent of his attempts succeed.

              "Cloned embryos have serious developmental and genetic problems," Dr. Yanagimachi said, which usually kill them before birth. Just after birth, he said, more die, usually of lung problems. He added that inbred strains are much harder to clone than hybrid strains of mice, which makes sense, he said. Inbred animals have much less genetic diversity and so less opportunity to bypass genetic errors than hybrid animals.

              Dr. Westhusin says that when he thinks about what happens in cloning, "it's a wonder it works at all."

              Scientists knew that every cell in the body has the same genes so, in theory, all the instructions for making a new copy of an adult are present in every cell. But most of the genes in an adult cell, like a skin cell or a brain cell or a liver cell, are silenced. That is why those cells, which have reached their final stage of development, never change. A skin cell does not turn into a heart cell. A brain cell does not turn into liver cell. And no one expected an egg cell to be able to reprogram such an adult cell, somehow stripping its genes bare of their chemical masks.

              Dr. Jaenisch and Dr. Westhusin say that from preliminary molecular biology experiments they are starting to see confirmation of their belief that reprogramming can go awry. They are looking at molecular patterns of gene expression in embryos created by cloning and comparing them to the patterns in embryos created by normal fertilization. Their results so far are consistent with their hypothesis that reprogramming can result in random errors in almost any gene.

              But scientists say that every species is different, and it remains possible that it will be easier and safer to clone humans than it is to clone other species.

              Mouse eggs are fragile, Dr. Jaenisch said, which may complicate efforts to clone. The solutions used to bathe cattle embryos while they are grown in the laboratory seem to create a large-calf syndrome, resulting in large placentas and huge calves that often die around the time of birth. But clinics for in-vitro fertilization have vast experience in growing human embryos in the laboratory and have perfected the method.

              Some — like Dr. Richard Rawlins, who directs the in-vitro fertilization laboratory for the Rush Health System in Chicago — say it is only a matter of time before someone announces that a human has been cloned. "In my opinion," he said, "all it takes right now is time, money and talent." The only question is who will do it first, he added. It may be the two fertility experts who recently announced that they wanted to clone a human, Dr. Panayiotis Zavos of the Andrology Institute in Lexington, Ky., and Dr. Severino Antinori, a fertility doctor in Rome. Or it may be a relative unknown.

              Academic scientists say they would not dare to think of cloning a human at this time.  The very experiment would be so controversial that they would become scientific pariahs, said Dr. Alan H. DeCherney, chairman of the department of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of California in Los Angeles. "You'd ruin your career," he said.

              In the meantime, the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Oversight  Investigations will hold hearings on human cloning on Wednesday, with a witness list including ethicists and scientists.

Looking at Cloning Through a Hindu Perspective

Source:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1021500086342&call_page=TS_Religion&call_pageid=1011789353981&call_pagepath=Life/Religion

TORONTO, CANADA, May 18, 2002: Many religious North Americans believe the idea of cloning amounts to scientists playing God in a way that's dangerous and sinful. According to this article, such concerns are based on the Biblical concept of God and Creation. The advaita or non-dualism philosophy of Hinduism does not separate God from man. Instead, man is engineering Divine Law alongside the architect. In other words, God is executing his will through humans, including scientists. While researching this issue the author, Ajit Adhopia, came across an interesting Hindu viewpoint. By taking a living cell, a scientist can clone the physical structure of an organism, but the process doesn't necessarily duplicate the soul, which means that the cloned person may not possess the characteristics or personality of its original. From a Hindu perspective, if people with bad karmas were to be cloned, their souls may reincarnate in another body, while their cloned bodies may be assigned the souls of others. According to a report summarizing Hindus spiritual leaders' varied thoughts, submitted to Bill Clinton's National Bioethical Advisory committee, "A cloned body might be useful." "Instructions exist in ancient Indian (Hindu) texts explaining how to conceive a child of a passionless and poised nature, all based on the thoughts and yogic practices of the parents during conception," it says, "If that is true, might not cloning, with its total elimination of human sexuality, provide a physical-emotional home for an advanced soul seeking an earthly passage of solace, needing to live without emotion or powerful desires and sentiments?"

Courtesy of http://www.HinduismToday.com/

Cloned Animals Suffer With Genetic and Physical Defects  (24th June 2002)

Source: Times of India

LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM, April 28, 2002: Ever since Dolly the cloned sheep hit the news in 1997, her progress and life has been watched world-wide. Cloning, using the DNA of an adult cell and injecting it into an egg, has been attempted by scientists around the world. Ian Wilmut, co-creator of Dolly the sheep, has analyzed the findings and has published his research. Wilmut says, "The widespread problems associated with clones has led to questions as to whether any clone was entirely normal." Dolly the sheep has developed arthritis at an abnormally young age. A cloned calf in France died after living only 51 days because its body could not produce white blood cells. At the Roslin research center in Scotland, the same center where Dolly was produced, a cloned lamb had to be put down because the muscles surrounding the lungs were too large causing the calf to suffocate. Wilmut believes that the problem with clones can be attributed to the behavior of methyl molecules. He says, "Methyl molecules attach themselves to DNA in all cells and help to control many of its functions. The methylation of the DNA in adult cells differs sharply from that of sperm and eggs. When a nucleus is taken from a cell of an adult animal and injected into an egg, its DNA is formatted in radically different ways from that found in sperm." Wilmut's research comes at a time when some scientists are attempting to clone human beings. Ian Wilmut warns, "Nobody should be attempting to clone a child. My research suggests that a cloned human would also be at huge risk of genetic defects."

Courtesy of http://www.HinduismToday.com/
 

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SOURCE: Associated
LONDON - Dolly the sheep, the world's first mammal cloned from an adult, was euthanized well short of her normal lifespan after being diagnosed with progressive lung disease, her creators said Friday.
The decision to end the life of 6-year-old Dolly was made after a veterinary examination confirmed the lung disease, a statement from the Roslin Institute said.
Researchers had previously cloned sheep from fetal and embryonic cells, but until Dolly it was unknown whether an adult cell could reprogram itself to develop into a new being. The death of the famous clone was sure to raise the debate over whether animal cloneding from adults inevitably produces flawed copies. There are now hundreds of animal clones around the world, including cows, pigs, mice and goats, many of them appearing robust and healthy. But many attempts to clone animals have ended in failure. Deformed fetuses have died in the womb with oversized organs, while others were born dead. Still others died days after birth, some twice as large as they should have been.
Dr. Harry Griffin of the institute said Friday that sheep can live to 11 or 12 years and lung infections are common in older sheep, particularly those like her which are kept indoors.
"A full post-mortem is being conducted and we will report any significant findings," Griffin said.
Dolly was born July 5, 1996 in a research compound of the Scottish institute, and she created an international sensation when the achievement was announced on Feb. 23, 1997.
Researchers had previously cloned sheep from fetal and embryonic cells, but until Dolly it was unknown whether an adult cell could reprogram itself to develop into a new being.
The Dolly breakthrough heightened speculation that human cloning inevitably would become possible.
Dolly, a Finn Dorset sheep named after the singer Dolly Parton, bred normally on two occasions with a Welsh mountain ram called David, first giving birth to Bonnie in April 1998 and then to three more lambs in 1999.
In 1999, scientists noticed that the cells in Dolly's body cloned from a 6-year-old sheep had started to show signs of wear more typical of an older animal.
Then in Jan. 2002, her creators announced she had developed arthritis at the relatively early age of 5 1/2 years, stirring debate over whether cloning procedures might be flawed.
Some geneticists said the finding provided evidence that researchers could not manufacture copies of animals without the original genetic blueprint eventually wearing out.
Dolly's body has been promised to the National Museum of Scotland and will eventually be put on display in Edinburgh, the Roslin Institute said.

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